Narrator (Jennifer): Okay.

Narrator (Ray): So here we go. And Jenny, no more clicking of that mouse. You know how difficult it is to get it out of sound?

Narrator (Jennifer): One more click.

Narrator (Ray): It's always like, and then it's in the middle of your sentence. And I'm like, ah, shit.

Narrator (Jennifer): Okay. I'm ready. All right, cool.

Narrator (Ray): Are you ready? Me too, I'm ready.

Narrator (Ray): Yay.  Ah, so here we are, man.  Hi and welcome to this Feminist Internet Life, FTX stories of collaboration, creativity, and care. And guess what? We are on episode three.

Narrator (Jennifer): Yahoo! Yeah.

Narrator (Ray): Jenny, what are we going to hear about today?

Narrator (Jennifer): Well, Ray, 3 things, this Feminist Technology eXchange, what it's about, why the FTX, and some stories from the first in person FTX in 2008. And it was a fantastic space where activists, feminists, techies were playing with technology and exploring the politics of it all. And then we'll hear from our guests who talk about the FTX, and how it's a space for collaboration, exploration, and creativity, and fun.

Narrator (Ray): Fun. Nice one. And what are the two things are we gonna hear about?

Narrator (Jennifer): So from the FTX, we go to move on to the writing sprint, because at the writing sprint we developed the third thing, which is the FTX safety reboot, the focus of this podcast. And the writing sprint brought together APC Women's Rights Program staff and then allies and partners. And we hosted this way back in 2016. We started bringing together the things that we knew, were important for a curriculum. And we did this because we really wanted to add a feminist input around the existing trainings that were happening around digital safety. And these were focusing on tools and were not focusing enough, we felt, on context and lived realities of activists, because it's like, you can't have a one size fits all training.

Narrator (Ray): So who are we speaking to this time?

Narrator (Jennifer): Okay. So, um, we're going to speak to Jac SMK and Cheekay Cinco who are both deeply involved in developing the Feminist Tech eXchange, as well as the principles that underpin the FTX, which we call the feminist politics and practice of technology.

hvale who's in Sarajevo, Shubha from Nepal, Helen from Uganda. So, that's just like an example of some of the amazing people involved and all who have used the FTX approach and methodology, who engaged in the writing sprint and who helped shape this FTX safety reboot  and who used the curriculums and their training and Nanda.

Who also helped translate the curriculum into Portuguese. Another person we are speaking to is Smitta, who's had years of experience with the FTX Safety Reboot and is based in India and is currently part of the APC Women's Rights Program.

Narrator (Ray): Right, and you spoke about Nanda translating this into Portuguese. Have you translated it into any other languages?

Narrator (Jennifer): Yep, we have, we have it, the curriculum. Yeah, we have, we have English, Portuguese, French, Spanish, and we are ta-da, soon to launch it in Arabic and Russian, which is incredibly exciting.

Narrator (Ray): And, and maybe one day it will be in Swahili. Who knows? Well, so now let's give the floor to our amazing guests as introduced by Jenny.

- Feminist Technology eXchange, how it all started

Narrator (Jennifer): And Jac, the Feminist Technology eXchange in 2008, if you want to just talk to that, because it was just so powerful and it felt like it was the first time in, in some, one of the women's movement, where people started making the connection between, you know, technology and feminist practice that, you know, technology is political. And there was some incredible inputs that tracks were amazing. If you want to just like speak to your experience of that as someone who just like conceptualized it, um, kind of held it together.

Jac: I mean, it's hard to think about it now, but I think it was 2008. No, was it 2008?

Narrator (Jennifer): Yeah. Yeah. It was 2008 Cape Town, Monkey Valley. 2007 was like the conceptualization in Jo'burg. Yeah.

Jac: So like 2006, Take Back The Tech, right? 2007, how do we like expand this work? And then how do we connect this with like the, the broader women's movement and thinking through like, you know, how do we create this kind of a ripple space? And I think the thing with, with FTX was like, it was, we understood it to be like necessarily and importantly, collaborative, that it needed to kind of like connect between not only, you know, the broader women's movements, but also like different types of organizing and different kinds of deep work that other groups and activists were doing around technology, that was really cool. So, for example, if you remember Freedom Phone in Zimbabwe, and they were using kind of this like, you know, old school... Well, I put "old school" in like inverted commas, but using kind of the dull tones to provide particular kinds of information out to specific kind of, like, I think it was health information to women in.

Narrator (Jennifer): Yeah. And it was USSD, wasn't it? Like you, USSD  responses. I remember that. Yeah. It was brilliant. Brilliant.

Jac: Yeah, so like things like that. So that was like a whole track and 10 hours, a whole track. It was also about dealing with different kinds of access realities, and also being able to create spaces for others within the APC organization who had technical experience and know how to also engage in this, but like Fatima, no, who's actually, who was in finance, but then who was actually also part of the container track and leading it.

Yeah. So it was really like, it really understood collaboration to be at the heart of it. It understood like creating multiple like spaces for different forms of shaping of that space and making sharing skills and knowledge. And we deliberately called it a technology exchange rather than a training or a capacity building event, because it was also about recognizing that everybody came with some form of expertise, knowledge, experience, skills, know how. And what we wanted to do was to facilitate that space of exchange, between that, rather than to go like, ere are the experts and you come here to build your skills. So, that was like also a very clear feminist stands for us. And Cheekay was also extremely instrumental in developing this approach with us and figuring out like, you know, what is the, what is a feminist approach to thinking about training and thinking about capacity building?

The thing that was also really funny was how we tried to fund it. Cause this work, it had no project funding. It had like no core funding. It would be just trying to pull things together and trying to figure out how do we do this without specific,you know, without specific money earmarked, if you wanted to write a proposal for FTX at that time in 2007, it would have been weirdly, it would have been impossible. Funders today have difficulties trying to understand the intersection. 2007, it's like, what are you talking about?

Narrator (Jennifer): Yeah.

Jac: And then FTX happened, which was again, such a glorious space. It was just this, uh, really this beautiful space of coalescing of energies and imagination, and also like a desire to learn from each other and share knowledge with each other.

Narrator (Jennifer): The FTX in 2008 was really powerful in terms of, you know, we had four tracks and it was totally led by women. I think there was one man at the camp and it was, were there two?

Cheekay: Oh, yeah, yeah. One from... both of them were in my track. That's why I know that there were two.

Okay. Well, one of the things I remember is one of the, the guys,  in the, in that track, he had a very interesting thing to say. He was like, I think this is such a good way to  make the case for why  women and technology is such an important thing and why gender, the gendered nature of technology is a real thing, you know, it's not just a theoretical thing.

Because he was saying, being one of the two men in this women led thing, even though he himself identified as a feminist, he really felt like this is how women feel when in technology spaces. Like being a minority or marginalized in... even though the space is not, doesn't necessarily marginalize or is designed to be, to marginalize someone. Just by the very fact that  it's a numbers game, right? So like, the very fact that there are only two of them, he felt  the genderness of it. Right? And, and he was like, so to me, it really hits the point, it makes the point why we need more women in technology because this is how women feel in technology spaces all the time.

Maybe he didn't feel marginalized most times in his life, you know? So, yeah, that was a good, I think it was, we had a good conversation around that. And yeah, yeah.

Narrator (Jennifer): And I mean, so he had an embodied experience.

Cheekay: And so it was on a personal level, that was a really good space to be in because it combined a lot of the things that I loved about the work, which is gathering women who were nerds around technology, and women who were, who didn't know that they were nerds yet, but they definitely had interest in technology.

And then, feminism, like women feminists that are, who are interested in technology, and then who are interested in learning and teaching and training. And then it was unapologetically around technology and feminism. So that's what was magical to me about FTX.

Narrator (Jennifer): If you want to talk just about, about like your experiences of the FTX, what track you led, you know, how it was for you as a trainer to be in that space and then take everyone along to AWIT and, you know, kind of practice stuff.

Cheekay: Yeah. So I was in the, I was in the smallest track because I was, I think I was in the track that was the most experimental, which is the wireless track. We were trying to merge two things. At that time in  2008, mobile technology was kind of like emerging, itwas still very, very exorbitant, but it was also, there was a lot of promise around it in terms of decreasing the access gap, because there was a lot of development around mobile access and mobile data  globally.

So, at that wireless shack, we merged through two big topics. One was wireless networking, which is Wi Fi networking. And then, the other one was around tools that use mobile telephony. So, that was Freedom Phone from Zimbabwe, was kind of running. And then the Frontline SMS, which was an SMS system that allowed a group to broadcast SMS to a lot of numbers.

It was also something that a lot of groups were using to do human rights abuse and violations response. So, SMS based helplines were run on frontline SMS. So it was that. That was the track that we read.

\- The writing sprint when FTX became a trainer's guide.

Narrator (Jennifer): Can you just tell us a little bit about that experience of being involved in the writing sprint and why you would say that the FTX safety reboot is a useful resource?

Cheekay: Our goal was really around getting the WRP team who were in the room and the world like such a wealth of resource for knowledge and learning to just write. Because we want to develop curriculum around safety, around online gender based violence, around feminist approaches to technology. Where else can you get that but from the minds and experiences of the WRP people? Because... Like the team and individually has been kind of living this and practicing this for forever, you know?

So, the sprint was really around that. It had a goal around, so with who is this curriculum for? We had activities around where, who the intended audiences were, like kind of imagining, visualizing the intended audiences for the curriculum is, and then most of the meat of that sprint was really getting people to write.

And that was the most challenging thing about that sprint because as with a lot of self taught technology trainers, and then, so writing was such a hard thing, you know? For everyone. I remember people kind of like, it's what I know worth writing. And I'm like, yes, what you know is worth writing. So, that's where I think the challenge was, you know.

Helen: We had... the clock was running and it's a giant curriculum, so there are so many sections, so what you do is you split up and you do buddy buddy system and you say on this section, two people work on this section, and then the clock starts. Then you have to try and, and have an output before time runs out. That's... hence the sprint. The approach for every individual that was at that event, the writing sprint, came with their own experience as a trainer. What had worked and what hadn't worked. And using that experience, there was like, a decision unanimously that the way we have to approach it, anyone who can open that manual should be able to understand what is in that. So then you take into account differently skilled individuals, language, analogies. What kind of, are you saying things they would understand? The example you're using, do they really understand that? I think that it was deliberate.

hvale: So, writing sprint, I have still a photo, an actual photo, you know, the one printed. with almost all of us when we went out for a walk.  And it's with me. It's in my computer backpack wherever I go the photos is there with all the colors and all the people. And whenever I need it, whenever I'm in crise, I go and look at it to remember the people, you know, and the laugh, the mask we did, you know, full face mask. We did that, how we were running outside to look at the...  the whales or the dolphins or, uh, and it's... one I would say of my foundational moment in terms of community, not only in terms of issues. No, because issues, they evolve and they get also new constraints or new possibilities.

But really having an actual experience of doing something together and giving a shape or put some of the blocks, no? That will then take a shape, because it was together. I think that this is inside the FTX. It's written from people coming from different culture, different age, different experiences. So, and this is a "we" thing. It's not a product of one person or one methodology. It really comes from a we, an us.

Cheekay: Now you're going to have to teach what you know to others and around the topic that you've been that we've been dealing with for decades, right? And now we're going to build curriculum around it. And so, so the three different learning activities in the FTX Reboot was to somehow organize how people can learn and how people can teach what they know as well. Because this FTX Reboot, was meant for trainers, for feminist trainers, who probably will encounter the same issues around how do I teach this wealth of knowledge that I have that I did not learn formally. I learned through experience.

\- Full safety and care training curriculum the FTX safety reboot.

Fernanda: The Feminist Tech eXchange, it's meant to be, as far as I know, it started as a series of meetings between other digital security and care, self care, collective care facilitators to share experiences and methodologies on how to do feminist exchange on themes of as digital security, self care, collective care, being online safely during times of online violence, especially gender based violence, it was a recollection of things that were going fine, like in sharing knowledge about these things.

And lately it came as a digital format, like resource. That it is several methodologies to and approaches to facilitate digital security and care. So, it's a collection of methodologies on how to facilitate digital security and how to conduct these meetings, like in these sessions of learning, like shared learning. So this is how it, it came to DevTechs.

Narrator (Jennifer): So we developed the FTX or the Feminist Technology Exchange safety reboot with the intention of trying to produce materials that people could riff or fuse, localize translate use differently. Can you just speak to any experiences you've had with the FTX safety reboot?

Smita: I mean, I personally really think that the FTX safety report is a really important resource because it's not that there are no other additional security resources. Like, you know, security in a box, tactical tech, all of them make resources without question, and they're fantastic resources, but I think what we were missing was an aggregation, a structure, which kind of brought together all of these different resources, which exist in vacuums.

And they may not exist in vacuum in their respective countries, but like when it comes to India, for example, or South Asia, it's kind of  a little far away, right, and I think the FTX safety reboot kind of brought it together into a structure, which also really helps, especially new trainers and facilitators to think through how they want to do or think about additional security.

And one of my favorite parts is that it's not descriptive. And it's not that... say, if you use one module, you have to use, you know, use the same, FTX safety reboot till the very end. You can pick and choose parts which you think are useful and helpful and then modify it to yourself. And I think it's versatility is one of its strengths, right?

And I think that strength really comes from the fact that a lot of people who became quote, unquote, accidental trainers really input into the safety reboot. Because if that wasn't there, then, you know, a really real need that digital security is not a homogenous experience for everyone that will not be recognized.

And what I like about the safety reboot is this, right? It really allows you to play with it. It allows you to kind of like choose what you want. It allows us a great degree of agency for the trainers and facilitators themselves. Which I think is really, really important.

Helen: There is, I don't think I would have been able to train on certain topics if I did not have that. There, there currently there doesn't exist information like that. What exists is different sorts of things, but you have to know about them and know which websites go to. So what it does, it... It just has everything in a place, but it's different how I see it is different because of the work that went into the activities.

In any manual, any sort of learning manual, the activities can make it or break it. So the activities and how the structure  of role play and materials you need, all that instruction I think is very well done at a high standard, something we in our region we haven't seen before. And it's, yes, that's a recommendation for all this great work and it helps the trainer. It makes it easier. Exactly. So you don't have the stress of thinking about all these, how to structure your session. You just open it and everything is there and all you have to do is them, is you know, try it out.

There's a game for when you have to teach online GBV and it's such a fun game. And what's going to do it with your participants, you will be able to, first of all, identify the different forms, like how does it, how does it look when you say online GBV, what does that look like? Then a big thing is how do you respond to that? When it happens to you if you're a victim. And then another big thing is how to document that process. So, if you take, if you take that material and you use it, this can be your outcome.

Cheekay:  Right. So that's why we had like the starter deepening in the tactical activities because some activities you, and then there was also the challenge around one of the parameters of this curriculum development was it should be able to be to fit in either a four day  digital safety training or a two hour long one, right? So  we needed to kind of like locate where learning can happen and what can be learned at different kind of like time parameters. So the learning activities is very important kind of like way to frame, the embodied knowledge that was in the materials that we had at the end after the sprint. And then, the other thing I would say that was important here is around being very clear about your learning objectives. So you're... and it's really, we're not just shaming for the sake of training, we have, we need to have some kind of.  learning objective, that's why we will design different activities for training, you know?

So that's the other piece I think that was kind of important in the FTX review.  And then we also wrote stuff around, you know, like, how do you get to know your participants? How do you plan your training? You know, which I think this refers back to a lot of the earlier work around feminist practices.

Smita: I have used different parts of it, different parts of the safety reboot in trainings before it became the FTX Safety Reboot  and also after it became that. What I mean is that even before it was collected and termed as the FTX Safety Reboot, the exercises themselves existed with different trainers.

And, I don't know, I can't remember right now how, but like a lot of that knowledge was around. So, I have used like different activities which are there in it, in different workshops. And then, once it became the FTX safety reboot, I have shared it with others as well, with people who, you know, if I have been doing trainings and facilitations from like, say 2015, these are people who came to realize it's need around like 2020, for example, and it was so useful for them.

And I think it's. It's a really valuable resource and it's what we really need to make sure is that it is alive, right. With like new things coming into it because technology changes so fast that anything that you produce is like not obsolete, but like a little old very soon. And it needs to be adapted and modified and you know, updated. Yeah, I think updated is the right word.

Narrator (Jennifer): Just to carry on with the FTX safety reboot, the fact that it can be adapted and localized and that it is in now in 6 languages. Do you want to speak a little bit about why you feel that is important in relation to feminist curricula?

Shubha: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the flexibility that we have been using applying is given the language difference, right? So we have to adjust and like use it now on context anyway, with the examples, with case studies. We try to incorporate that in the local context, but also in terms of what goes after that, right? Like within the model, and then we can pick and choose, which sections of the model we want to use. Within the risk assessment, there are so many ways to do it. So we can we can choose which one to use, given the context, given the group we are working with. So it is quite adaptable from my experience, at least.

Fernanda: The first time I became involved with FTX was actually, I knew about FTX from another colleague, another friend and working towards feminist digital security and feminist technology in Brazil, it's Fernanda Shirakawa. I heard from her, she was coming to an FTX session in Nepal, I think. And she was already involved in this. She introduced myself in lots of times of,  uh, regarding feminist technology. And I was involved in other ways to do digital activism before that. And then I started getting involved with translation of other materials, other resources in English, and also doing our methodologies and trying to figure out how to bring out the digital safety and digital self care, as a subject for feminist organizations in Brazil, I finally knew about APC. We had a lot of discussions about, what's the role of Global South feminist infrastructures and feminist tech facilitators for the community itself. And then the first time I actually got engaged in doing things to FTX was when I translated FTX for Brazilian Portuguese, it was in 2019, the first time, the first revision of FTX as a website, we translated, I helped translate in Brazil. The last thing we did was to provide some models to the FTX as methodologists for online participation and engagement with digital security in online spaces.

hvale: Sometimes we think that because we can talk to one another, that we are actually speaking the same language. No? But that's not true. So, languages matters,  because, I mean... The Balkans can share some languages, but even in this micro cosmo, you have Serb, Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, that are, like, the same language, but then you have Albanian, which is very different, Macedonian, that is different, and it matters if people can access in their languages, no? It becomes a truly open.

And so even having multiple bridge languages or colonial languages, it is a one degree less in term of a distance. And language it's an issue of politics, an issue of justice.  And so I think that any attention, willingness, openness to use different languages is really an act of justice. And, and it is something that can keep a tool alive, you know? Because new people that are new to the tool that comes and brings their perspective, they are, the way in which they understand. And so, languages... we should try. And I think that there is a lot of work to be done to make a funders or whoever has more resources that languages matter. And that, especially in the digital, we can be really... we should work in multiple languages as much as possible because then, we are, we exit the scarcity.

Narrator (Ray): That was a really great panorama about how the FTX safety reboot came to life and how it's being used by different feminists and digital safety facilitators. But it also seems that the FTX safety reboot curricula is a lot to process. So, how would, how should anyone interested, start using this curriculum? Can you tell me more Jenny? How is it structured?

Narrator (Jennifer): Okay. So, as I said earlier, this curriculum, we designed for feminist trainers and facilitators who are wanting to train around digital safety and care. I need to say as well. And it's a guide to help shape trainings. So it's really adaptable, as a resource with a range of different exercises, prompts, background readings. And we have five modules. And these modules are divided into different sections. We have the introduction, and to the topic, and then we have learning objectives, and this really helps them shape the training.

And then from there we have what we call learning paths, which sort of deepen the structure of the training. And then each of the learning activities are divided into the starter, which are the kind of simple introductory parts, then deepening, which if your participants are more familiar with the topic, then they go to these exercises are more deepening and then we've got the tactical, which are quite practical.

And then of course, we've got the other resources that you can consult. And the five modules we felt were issue areas that trainers and facilitators were really interested in. So, we've got online gender based violence, which is a huge area of concern. And activism. And then we've got mobile safety, risk assessment, another critical one, creating safe online spaces, one of my favorites, and then the feminist principles of the internet.

And kind of a sixth module is the part which is about, so how to hold, intersectional space, bring in the feminist politics and practices of technology, you know, bring in feminist principles of participation, et cetera. and that's it. Yeah. Go explore.

Helen: It's quite extensive. So if you, if you were to use it, I would say just fall in, like go all in. Use the whole manual.  And then, because what happens when you're training, you normally have several manuals opened. You're looking here, you're looking here, you're looking here. But, I would say, and I've never had the chance to use it for one training entirely, because I'm co-training with other people, they have their own style.

So I'd say if you can, use the entire manual from start to finish. I would say... And three days actually of the actual training and then several other days for prep. Take a week and every day just try to eat up some pages. I think that it can go either shorter or longer depending on what sections really need. Hence the needs assessment. So know what your people want to learn and then you can figure out and it can be like a, an a la carte menu and then you just flip through the pages and pick the topic you want.

Narrator (Ray): And as Jenny says, let's go explore.

Narrator (Jennifer): Tune into our next episode where we will be speaking to why digital safety and care has to be rooted in our lives and work. We explore with amazing people who are working in the field of trauma, well being, digital safety and care about why and how embedding care into all trainings and in all our activisms is so critical. What does it mean to build infrastructures of care and how do we sustain these in person and remotely.

Narrator (Ray): We would really like to thank Jac, Shubha, Fernanda, Cheekay, Helen, Smita and hvale for their contribution to this episode.

Narrator (Jennifer): And this episode is a production from the Association for Progressive Communications Women's Rights Program and the Our Voices, Our Futures Project.

Narrator (Ray): This Feminist Internet Live, FTX stories of collaboration, creativity, and care is produced by Rachel Wamoto, Nadege, and Brunz.

Narrator (Jennifer): And your hosts are Rachel Wamoto and me, Jennifer Radloff. See you next time.

Narrators (Jennifer & Ray): See you next time. See you next time. See you next time. See you next time. Bye.  Bye.